Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh
I am from Netherlands. I am a new Muslim
and I was a Shia Muslim for a solid year, but now I am converted to Maliki-
These things made me not able to be Shi’a anymore:
1. I can’t accept Shi’a hadiths because they don’t have isnad
2. I don’t believe the first 3 deserted Islam after the death of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wa aalihi wa Sallam)
3. I don’t believe the 12 Imams are Ma’sumeen
if you think I am wrong, please notify me. Allah bless you.
First you said you converted from Shia Islam to Maliki Islam. The question is why didn’t you become a Shafi’i? Why didn’t you become a Hanafi? Why didn’t you become an Athna’ashari, Ismaili, or Zaidi?!
And why does the Shia Islam regard itself justified and legitimate? Twenty books of Sunni quotation books have quoted about the twelve caliphs of the Prophet (PBUH) in which hadiths are quoted with the same theme:
عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِی عَلَی النَّبِی صلی الله علیه و سلم، فَسَمِعْتُهُ یقُولُ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لَا ینْقَضِی حَتَّی یمْضِی فِیهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِیفَةً قَالَ ثُمَّ تَکلَّمَ بِکلَامٍ خَفِی عَلَی، قَالَ؛ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِی مَا قَالَ؛ قَالَ کلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَیشٍ
It is quoted from Jabir-ibn-Samura that said: I entered with my father to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and I heard him said: This religion shall not be completed until twelve Caliphs are passed in it. Then he whispered something [to my father]. I told my father: what did he say? He said: “He said all of them are from Quraysh”
The meaning of all the said hadiths is almost the same in the following sense: The Holy Prophet (PBUH) said: The religion of Islam shall not be completed and concluded unless twelve caliphs appear and perform their job; In other words, there are twelve caliphs after me. The narrator, Jabir –ibn- Samura, says: The Prophet (PBUH) whispered a phrase in such a manner that I didn’t hear it. I asked my father, what did the Prophet say? He said: All of them are from Quraysh.
Sahih Muslim, Vol. 12, p. 186
Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 23, p. 490. (Of course this hadith has been omitted in the new versions of Sahih al-Bukhari!)
The Sunan Abu Dawood, Vol.12, p. 399.
The Jami’ at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 8, p. 435
Al- Sunan al- Warida fi al-Fetan al-Dani Vol.1, p.237
Tasmiat-o-ma-ravvah-o-Saeid-ibn-Mansur-le-abi-Naeim-al-Esbahani, p. 16.
Considering the narrators and the authenticity of their hadith, is the belief of Malikis fitted with these 12 caliphs? Or Shafi’is or Hanafis or …? Which of the Islamic sects conforms to this narrative except twelver Shias?
The Sunnis themselves wondered who are those twelve caliphs mentioned by the Prophet [PBUH]. It should be noted, however, that the Shi’a, according to the hadiths, believes in 12 caliphs of Allah (meaning deputies or agents of God), not caliphs with apparent rule over people. There is also something about Malik Ibn Anas himself, the founder of al-Maliki sect. He was born a year and a half after his father’s death, while his mother had no husband! This fact is related by the Sunnis; they say that Malik Ibn Anas had been too modest to be born while other great scholars were still alive!
What is your own opinion? Should we abandon the Ahl al-Bayt, abandon the Imams whose ancestry is clear, and replace them with the late Malik Ibn Anas as our jurisprudential Imam? Can we let go of the Ahl al-Bayt, who descent from Lady Fatima [A.S.] and the Prophet [PBUH], and refer to Malik Ibn Anas, who was born a year and a half after his father’s death???
It should be noted that the honorable Imam Shafi’i the founder of Shafi’i religion, was in Medina, and was a follower of the Maliki religion who were following the school of “Athar” [meaning the quotations and acts of companions of the Prophet Muhammad [PBUH] – translator]. But later he was introduced to the Kufa school of thought, which believes in Qias
and Raay [ruling], and found out that the opinions of school of “Athar” could not be defended and he turned away from Maliki sect.
And the answers to your questions:
In the first question you said that I cannot accept Shia hadiths because they have no documentation.
There are two aspects to this question.
– First of all, on what basis are you saying they have no documentation [Isnad]? Shia hadiths have been studied similar to Sunni hadiths and their authenticity has been identified. This is the subject of the science of Rijal in Shia Islam to examine the authenticity of the hadiths and even if a hadith seems to favor the Shia Islam but does not have strong documentation, it is rejected by the Shia scholars.
-Secondly, you may say that we have Sunni hadiths beside Shia hadiths that you consider invalid. Let’s see if there is a problem with Sunni hadiths or not.
Sunni people regard anyone who has seen the Prophet (PBUH) as a Companion (Sahaabe). But none of the Sunni scholars judge the Companions, or in other word they don’t investigate if they may be trusted or not; and simply because a person’s name is among the names of the Companions, they accept his/her words. So all the Sunnis documentations will be compromised in this regard. Because one cannot make sure that necessarily anyone who has seen the Prophet was definitely a trusted person. History has also proved this. Also, some Sunni scholars, such as Dhahabi, say that if we are to open up the subject of judgment [Jarh] (the judgment of the Companions), there will remain no correct quotation for us. That is, the Sunnis themselves have stated that the number of their fake hadiths is so high that the number of correct hadiths among the fake hadiths is such as the number of black hairs in the body of a white cow.
Abu Hanifa, a Sunni Supreme Imam, did not accept more than 17 quotations, although he passed away at 150 AH.
You asked in the second question about the Islam of the first three caliphs, and you probably meant why the Shias do not accept their Islam?
– Whether we believe that the Caliphs’ Islam has had a problem or not may be a personal opinion. So we have to look for this in the quotations. If you have accepted the first three caliphs then you must accept the fourth caliph. The fourth caliph is Ali Ibn Abi Talib, who the Prophet has repeatedly acknowledged his honesty and integrity.
Sunnis believe that there was a good relationship between Amir al-Mu’minin Ali (AS) and Abu Bakr and Umar, and in Imam Ali’s (PBUH) opinion the rule of Abu Bakr and Umar were completely religious, but unfortunately this belief exactly contradicts the Sahih Muslim. In Sahih Muslim, the book of al-Jihad Walsair, section of Hokm al-Fayy, Vol. 3, pp. 1378 &1379, hadith 3302 published by (دار إحیاء کتب العربی ) it is written that Imam Ali (PBUH) and Abbas the uncle of the Prophet (PBUH) were with Umar in a group of companions. Omar said:
قَالَ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنْ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَاهُ صَدَقَةٌ فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ إِنَّهُ لَصَادِقٌ بَارٌّ رَاشِدٌ تَابِعٌ لِلْحَقِّ ثُمَّ تُوُفِّيَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَأَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَوَلِيُّ أَبِي بَكْرٍ فَرَأَيْتُمَانِي كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا …
When the Prophet (PBUH) passed away, Abu Bakr said I am the Prophet’s successor. You two (Imam Ali (PBUH) and Abbas) came and you, O Abbas, demanded your nephew’s inheritance and Ali (PBUH) asked for his wife’s inheritance. Abu Bakr said that the Prophet had said: “We do not inherit anything and what remains are public assets”.And the opinion of you two (Imam Ali (PBUH) and Abbas) about Abu Bakr was that he is a liar, a sinner, a deceiver and a traitor, while God knows that Abu Bakr was truthful, a true believer and a follower of the truth. Then Abu Bakr died and I became the successor of the Prophet (PBUH) and Abu Bakr, and your opinion about me also was that I am a liar, an evil one, a cunning, a deceiver, and a traitor…
There was no protest by Imam Ali (PBUH) and Abbas after Omar’s Speech. So in the opinion of Imam Ali (PBUH) and the Prophet’s uncle, Abbas, the first and second caliphs were liars, sinners, and deceitful traitors.
Of course, this quotation is related in Sahih Bukhari, but it seems that honorable Bukhari has preferred to censore this section!
But this quotation has another very important point. In this quotation Umar uses the word “Wali”( ولی) as successor, the word Sunnis always insist that it means “friend,” especially in Ghadir’s sermon. So this word has been very popular in the sense of successor and caliph.
On the other hand, according to the hadith, it is clear that there was not a consensus for the succession of Abu Bakr, or at least Imam Ali and Abbas were not in this consensus. It is interesting to note that honorable Ibn Hazm Andalusi writes in his book Al-Mahli on such consensus:
God damn any consensus in which Ali ibn Abi Talib and his companions are not present.
Al-Mahli, v9, p 345, Issue 1768, Book of Ahkam-al-Vasaya
In view of this, was the rule of Abu Bakr and Omar legitimized and was their Islam correct?
– Another proof of this claim is the daughter of Prophet, Lady Fatima (A.S). Her dissatisfaction and anger with the first and second caliphs has been explicitly pointed out in Sunni sources, for example:
1-Mohammad ibn Ismail Bukhari in “Sahih Bukhari”, Vol. 5, p. 177, published in Beirut quotes from Aisha:
“Lady Fatima (A.S) turned away from Abu Bakr for (the Fadak story) and didn’t talk to him until her martyrdom, his husband, Ali (PBUH), buried her at night and did not allow Abu Bakr to attend her funeral.”
2- Beyhaghi in “Sunan al-Kubra”, Vol. 6, p. 300, published in Beirut:
Lady Fatima (A.S) was angry with Abu Bakr, and refused to speak to him until she was martyred, so Ali (PBUH) buried her at night. “
3- Muslim Ibn Hajjaj in “Sahih Muslim”, Vol. 3, p.1380. Published in Egypt:
“When Lady Fatima (A.S) passed away, her husband Ali (PBUH) prayed on her and buried her at night, and did not inform Abu Bakr to come and pray on her.”
4- Ibn Abi’l-Hadid, “Interpretation of Nahj al-Balagha”, Vol. 6, p. 50:
“It is true in my opinion that Lady Zahra (A.S) was martyred while she was angry with Abu Bakr and Umar and that definitely she had ordered that they both should not pray on her.”
5- Ibn Qutaibah in the book “Al-Imama and al-Siyasa”, p. 14, as well as Muhammad ibn Youssef Ganji Shafi’i in “Kifayat al-Talib” section 99, note that Lady Zahra (A.S) said to Abu Bakr and Umar:
God and His angels bear witness that you two (Abu Bakr and Umar) angered me and did not give me consent. If I meet the Prophet (PBUH) I will certainly complain to him about you. “
And also Lady Zahra (A.S) said to Abu Bakr: I swear to God, I curse you in every prayer I say. “
Is a clearer reason than this clear speech needed?
Even if we do not consider the above arguments, can we consider the 12 caliphs that the Prophet (PBUH) spoke of, to be the same as the order of the rulers at the beginning of Islam? That is to say, of the12 caliphs the first is Abu Bakr, the second is Umar, the third is Uthman, the fourth is Ali, the fifth is Mu’awiyah, the sixth is Yazid ….!
Did Muawiyah and Yazid really deserve the caliphate of the Islamic Ummah? Muawiyah’s vices are obvious to all. And his son Yazid, was known for his drunkenness and debauchery. If we want to accept the Islamic caliphs only on the basis of what happened at the beginning of Islam and consider them legitimate then we must also accept the legitimacy of Mu’awiyah and Yazid and say that their Islam was correct too!
Sunnis have a quotation:
“No nation after their Prophet disputed, except that the vicious in that nation prevailed over the righteous.”
Al-Mo’jam al-Awsat, Tabarani, Vol. 7, p. 37.
In the early years of Islam, after the Prophet, there were disputes, and some people were victorious, so according to the Sunni quotations the fact that they were victorious, proves their being wrong.
In the third question you said that the infallibility of the 12 Shia Imams (Ahl al-bayt) is unacceptable to you.
- the Verse : « إِنَّمَا یُرِیدُ اللَّهُ لِیُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَیْتِ وَیُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِیرًا » ( Ahzab/33)
“God desires to remove all impurity from you, O People of the Household, and to purify you thoroughly.”
The quotations that the Sunnis have compiled for interpretation of this verse have been quoted from about forty lines, and all emphasize that the Ahl al-bayt are referring to the Prophet, Ali, Zahra, Hassan and Hussein (PBUT). Among the main narrators of these quotations are figures such as Umm Salama, Aisha, Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri, Ibn Abbas and Abdullah ibn Ja’far, who are authentic narrators.
This verse is in the Surah of Al-Ahzab and the beginning of the verse is addressed to the Prophet’s wives and this has led some people to induce doubts and deny its correspondence to Ahl al-bayt, or to claim that it includes the prophet’s wives as Ahl al-bayt.
The whole verse is as follows:
« وَقَرْنَ فِی بُیُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِیَّةِ الْأُولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِینَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا یُرِیدُ اللَّهُ لِیُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَیْتِ وَیُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِیرًا ؛
“And settle in your homes; and do not display yourselves, as in the former days of ignorance. And perform the prayer, and give regular charity, and obey God and His Messenger. God desires to remove all impurity from you, O People of the Household, and to purify you thoroughly.”
Verses 28 to 34 of the Surah Al-Ahzab speak about the Prophet’s wives and their duties and have addressed them either directly with the words ” یا نساء النبی” ( meaning O messenger’s wives), or indirectly and with the words ” یا ایها النبی قل لازواجک “(meaning O Messenger tell your wives). This has led some despiteful or biased commentators to justify the verse and include the Prophet’s wives in Ahl al-bayt; now here are some arguments:
– According to the verse of Purification (Al-Ahzab/33) and verses before and after it, it can be well understood that whenever the Qur’an addresses the Prophet’s wives, all the pronouns in the verse are female plural, while all the pronouns in the verse of purification are male plural. And this is the best reason for the verse’s audience being a group other than the Prophet’s wives.
Although there are some quotations that claim the inclusion of the Prophet’s wives in Ahl al-bayt, but the narrators of many of these quotations are figures such as Ikrimah, Muqatil and Urwa, all of whom are known for their hostility to the Ahl al-bayt, especially Ali Ibn Abi Talib.
– Quoted in the book of Qayat-ul-Maram by Abdullah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal of his father, in his quotation from Umm Salma: This verse – the verse of purification – was revealed in my house and there were seven people in the house; Gabriel, Michael and Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussein and me!
I told the Prophet (PBUH): Am I among Ahl-al-bayt too? The Prophet said: “You are guided on the right path! You are one of the Prophet’s wives!” (You are not from Ahl al-bayt)
– Since the word (رجس) (meaning impurity) comes with the prefix (ال) in the verse of purification (الرجس), its meaning is general and comprehensive, including any kind of impurity, whether apparent or internal. The word purification (تطهیر) also emphasizes the same meaning, implying that the infallible and pure Ahl al-bayt are free from any intellectual, moral, emotional and behavioral contamination.
– This verse comes beside the other verses related to the Prophet’s wives; but the fact that it must be related to them is not easily proven; because in some cases, the beginning of a verse is about one thing, and the middle of it is about the other, and the following is about third issue.
There have also been cases in the Qur’an that it has stated something when expressing something else, in the form of a parenthetical sentence. For example in the Joseph story we read:
“And when he saw that his shirt was torn from the back, he said, “This is a woman’s scheme. Their scheming is serious indeed.”(28) “Joseph, forgive this. And you, woman, ask forgiveness for your sin; you are indeed in the wrong.”(29)
As you can see, while speaking of Zuleikha’s scheme and snare, we see the parenthetical sentence
« یوسف اعراض عن هذا» meaning: “Joseph, forgive this”, that has nothing to do with contents before and after, but is itself an independent sentence.
“Indeed I am leaving two things among you, to which if you hold yourself, you will never astray: the book of Allah –who is all mighty and great- and my Ahl al-bayt (household), my ‘itra (family). O people hear! And I have announced to you that: indeed you will enter my presence and I will ask you about what you did to the thaqalayn (two weighty things) and the thaqalayn are the book of Allah and my Ahl al-bayt.”
This hadith has been quoted by more than 25 companions of the Prophet (PBUH):
– Zayd ibn Arqam: This hadith has been quoted in six ways by him in the books of Sunnan Nisa’i, al-Mujam al-Kabir Tabarani, Sunan Tirmidhi, al-Mustarak Hakim Neyshaburi, Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal and other books.
– Zayd ibn Thabit in Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal and al-Mujam al-Kabir Tabarani
– Jaber ibn Abdullah in the books of, Sunan (Sahih) Tirmidhi, al-Mujam al-Kabir, and al-Mu’jam al-Awsat Tabarani.
– Hodhaifa ibn Asid in al-Mujam al-Kabir Tabarani
– Abu Sa‘id al-Khudri in four spots in Musnad Ahmad and al-Dhuafa al-Kabir Aqili
– Ali ibn Abi Talib (PBUH) in two ways at al-Bahr al-Zakhar, or Musnad al-Bazzaz and Kanz ul-Ummal.
– Abu Dharr al-Ghifari in al-Mutalif wa-l-Mukhtalif Darequtni
– Abu Hurairah in Kashf al-Astar an Zawaid al-Bazzar
– Abdullah ibn Hantab in Osd ul-ġāba
– Jubayr ibn Mut’im in Dhelal al-Jannah
In some Sunni sources, however, the word “سنتی” (My Tradition) has replaced the word “عترتی” (My Family) in the hadith al-Thaqalayn. Such quotes are very rare and the Sunnis themselves have not paid any attention to them; because this hadith did not come up with such a phrase in the original reliable sources. Well, we see that the Prophet (PBUH) brings (12 Shia Imams) next to the Quran and asks us to follow them in order not to be misled. The question is, given that the Qur’an itself is infallible and error-free, may the Prophet [PBUH] leave one thing that is likely to be wrong with the infallible Quran and say that these two together are guides? Could the Prophet refer to a fallible person and say call upon that fallible person to be guided? Well, if that fallible person makes a mistake and we follow that mistake, what will happen for us in the resurrection day? When the Prophet commands people to follow Ahl al-bayt, if the Ahl al-bayt make mistakes and I follow their mistakes, then I have done the wrong thing, and if I do not follow them because they are wrong, I have done an error again because I did not follow the Prophet’s words about them!
The Prophet (PBUH) does not speak against wisdom, when he has directly commanded people to follow them so rationally and religiously they must be infallible.
At the end, you said we tell you if we think you’re wrong. We brought you some of the most important arguments for Shia Islam, but it’s up to you to decide. After all, everyone is responsible for his own choices and must be accountable to God.
Tbh it was an amazing answer